I just released 4.0 of Search Everything. It’s 2.3 compatible, except the category exlclusion option, I need to figure out the new taxonomy schema a little more in order to fix this. Hopefully someone else will send me an fix before I get around to it.
Search Everything increases the ability of the default WordPress Search, options included:
* Search Every Page
* Search non-password protected pages only
* Search Every Comment
* Search only approved comments
* Search Every Draft
* Search Every Excerpt
* Search Every Attachment
* Search Every Custom Field (metadata)
* Exclude Posts from search
* Exclude Categories from search (WP 2.2 only)… tagging support and category exclusion for WordPress 2.3 coming soon.
If you’re using any other version it’s a good idea to upgrade. I completely rewrote the admin backend with a much cleaner look while fixing that annoying initial save bug. I also move the options page to the manage area, which makes more sense and since WordPress will not be seeing any Search Management in the near or distant future (which is for another post) it’s there to stay.
If you haven’t downloaded it, what are you thinking?
I’m curious why the manage area is a better home for the options page than the options area. Am I missing something?
I’ll be waiting for your post on the decision to not include search options in the core by default, though, since I have opinions on that (short version: I agree with it).
After thinking about it I’m most likely going to take the manage tab out, since the plugin has options and doesn’t require management.
As far as search options in the core, I may post about it, I may not so here it goes. The core has a ton of options that do not come close to the need of adding simple search options. And if they finally add the searching of pages without the option its just going to require the majority of users to install a plugin like mine to give them what they need. And to require a plugin for basic needs of a user is rather absurd.
OK, I’ll give my short response to why I agree with the call to not include extended options for search in the core.
[For those who don't follow WP development, this conversation is stemming from a plan to revamp the search functionality in WordPress in the upcoming 2.4 release.]
I think we both agree that search should be a basic feature of WordPress. I additionally believe that it should be one that 80+% of users never have to think about; it should just search what “most” users would expect it to search, and that should be the end of it.
I believe that “most people” would like to have content returned in the search results whether it comes from posts or pages, and won’t care about the distinction. I could be wrong on that, but that’s actually my point: the dev team will do comprehensive user testing / surveys to find out what most users *really* do want (regardless of what you or I may feel), and implement that.
Then, for blog owners who want to provide more options for searching (to cover the minority cases) they can do that. For those who know enough to think they might want additional options, they will also know enough to download and install a plugin that will make those additional options available to them.
Since search (as you know) could potentially have *so many* options, you will never get everyone to agree on what or how those options should be implemented in the core. So, (IMHO) better to leave them out and let anyone who cares add option selections that they want, instead of trying to do a one-size-fits-all solution.
I’m curious why the manage area is a better home for the options page than the options area. Am I missing something?
I’ll be waiting for your post on the decision to not include search options in the core by default, though, since I have opinions on that (short version: I agree with it).
If they are only considering to include pages then one checkbox on an already existing options page shouldn’t be a problem. Look at the option to include/exclude the site from search engines, an option unnecessary for just about 95% of everyone but it appeases the few for wordpress.com since other services have the same option.
I just don’t get why sometimes it’s such a big deal to add functionality that <strike>IMO</strike> most people deem necessary.
Since it’s already going there, I’d also like to say that the default search function in WP core should include EVERYTHING. Now, that would give the user what they expect. Then plugins would be available to exclude and restrict the search to any given limitation.
After thinking about it I’m most likely going to take the manage tab out, since the plugin has options and doesn’t require management.
As far as search options in the core, I may post about it, I may not so here it goes. The core has a ton of options that do not come close to the need of adding simple search options. And if they finally add the searching of pages without the option its just going to require the majority of users to install a plugin like mine to give them what they need. And to require a plugin for basic needs of a user is rather absurd.
OK, I’ll give my short response to why I agree with the call to not include extended options for search in the core.
[For those who don't follow WP development, this conversation is stemming from a plan to revamp the search functionality in WordPress in the upcoming 2.4 release.]
I think we both agree that search should be a basic feature of WordPress. I additionally believe that it should be one that 80+% of users never have to think about; it should just search what “most” users would expect it to search, and that should be the end of it.
I believe that “most people” would like to have content returned in the search results whether it comes from posts or pages, and won’t care about the distinction. I could be wrong on that, but that’s actually my point: the dev team will do comprehensive user testing / surveys to find out what most users *really* do want (regardless of what you or I may feel), and implement that.
Then, for blog owners who want to provide more options for searching (to cover the minority cases) they can do that. For those who know enough to think they might want additional options, they will also know enough to download and install a plugin that will make those additional options available to them.
Since search (as you know) could potentially have *so many* options, you will never get everyone to agree on what or how those options should be implemented in the core. So, (IMHO) better to leave them out and let anyone who cares add option selections that they want, instead of trying to do a one-size-fits-all solution.
If they are only considering to include pages then one checkbox on an already existing options page shouldn’t be a problem. Look at the option to include/exclude the site from search engines, an option unnecessary for just about 95% of everyone but it appeases the few for wordpress.com since other services have the same option.
I just don’t get why sometimes it’s such a big deal to add functionality that
IMOmost people deem necessary.“most people deem necessary” – I think there’s a disagreement / matter of opinion there. The point in this case is that most people wouldn’t deem it necessary or even care about it at all, they just want a search function that “works” the way that “most people” expect it to, and then allow blog owners who want more to have the ability to add more.
You might think that everything should be included by default, and I would disagree (I think most people would expect standard posts & pages but not comments), but again, the point is that what you and I think is irrelevant.
The WP team has access to vastly more information than either of us do regarding what people want / expect in search functionality in WordPress, and I expect that they will base their decision on that.
I think that’s the right way to go. Then you, as a plugin developer, can add to and extend the defaults if you think there’s a demand for it.
Of course, you (as the author of this plugin) probably field a lot of requests for extra features, etc. and so you can continue to meet each of those feature requests with your plugin, if that’s what you want to do.
I’d just be careful not to equate the feedback you get on this plugin to what “most users” in general want, because you have to recognize that the people who would use your plugin are already a smaller sample of the overall WP population, and probably the ones who will continue to seek out all kinds of extra functionality that doesn’t make sense to add into core.
There’s a huge percentage of blog owners who don’t install any extra plugins at all, and even more end users who don’t even know what plugins (or WordPress for that matter) are, they just expect to see certain things (and not other things) in their search results.
It’s probably the sum of what those two groups of people want or expect that will drive what goes in as the default in WP, and that’s as it should be IMHO, because (1) there are far more of them than people who get into the details of plugins and other site tweaking, and (2) for those who are into (or even aware of) plugins, it’s easy enough for them to change the default behavior if they don’t like it, because they can find (or write) a plugin.
I do agree with you that it would be nice if the core search had the capability to search everything, but I’d also agree with the decision to have the options set by default to only include what “most people” expect, and have to install a plugin in order to tweak those options.
PS – regarding existing unnecessary options:
I’d also agree with you that WP already has a lot of option settings that would (if judged by the same criteria) be deemed unsuitable for inclusion in the core.
But those are mistakes of the past, and they don’t justify throwing in more and continuing to make that same mistake over and over again, just because a precedent was set.
If I had to speculate, I’d expect that a lot of those extraneous options will also be getting weeded out in the upcoming admin UI make-over that’s also slated for 2.4.
If we segment out WP users into the two groups that you defined; I would expect the non-plugin users to figure that everything would be searched no matter what it is, the other group could then tweak the search with a new plugin to disable what they don’t want searched. I would disable the comment search first thing and others might not want pages.
Right now people don’t really know what’s being searched until they continue to test it.
My opinion is search is handled backwards right now. Limiting search by default is wrong and people can/have taken it as a weakness, not knowing (or even knowing) that a plugin will fix a standard function.
I fully understand making the core as light as possible but when stuff like no-index gets included (which is recent) and multiple versions after the inclusion of pages we/they’re still talking about whether to include those pages in core search results is rather skewed in a direction that I can’t comprehend.
And if the issue is a checkbox then the just include the function without the option already, but I recommend not limiting it to pages.
“most people deem necessary” – I think there’s a disagreement / matter of opinion there. The point in this case is that most people wouldn’t deem it necessary or even care about it at all, they just want a search function that “works” the way that “most people” expect it to, and then allow blog owners who want more to have the ability to add more.
You might think that everything should be included by default, and I would disagree (I think most people would expect standard posts & pages but not comments), but again, the point is that what you and I think is irrelevant.
The WP team has access to vastly more information than either of us do regarding what people want / expect in search functionality in WordPress, and I expect that they will base their decision on that.
I think that’s the right way to go. Then you, as a plugin developer, can add to and extend the defaults if you think there’s a demand for it.
Of course, you (as the author of this plugin) probably field a lot of requests for extra features, etc. and so you can continue to meet each of those feature requests with your plugin, if that’s what you want to do.
I’d just be careful not to equate the feedback you get on this plugin to what “most users” in general want, because you have to recognize that the people who would use your plugin are already a smaller sample of the overall WP population, and probably the ones who will continue to seek out all kinds of extra functionality that doesn’t make sense to add into core.
There’s a huge percentage of blog owners who don’t install any extra plugins at all, and even more end users who don’t even know what plugins (or WordPress for that matter) are, they just expect to see certain things (and not other things) in their search results.
It’s probably the sum of what those two groups of people want or expect that will drive what goes in as the default in WP, and that’s as it should be IMHO, because (1) there are far more of them than people who get into the details of plugins and other site tweaking, and (2) for those who are into (or even aware of) plugins, it’s easy enough for them to change the default behavior if they don’t like it, because they can find (or write) a plugin.
I do agree with you that it would be nice if the core search had the capability to search everything, but I’d also agree with the decision to have the options set by default to only include what “most people” expect, and have to install a plugin in order to tweak those options.
PS – regarding existing unnecessary options:
I’d also agree with you that WP already has a lot of option settings that would (if judged by the same criteria) be deemed unsuitable for inclusion in the core.
But those are mistakes of the past, and they don’t justify throwing in more and continuing to make that same mistake over and over again, just because a precedent was set.
If I had to speculate, I’d expect that a lot of those extraneous options will also be getting weeded out in the upcoming admin UI make-over that’s also slated for 2.4.
If we segment out WP users into the two groups that you defined; I would expect the non-plugin users to figure that everything would be searched no matter what it is, the other group could then tweak the search with a new plugin to disable what they don’t want searched. I would disable the comment search first thing and others might not want pages.
Right now people don’t really know what’s being searched until they continue to test it.
My opinion is search is handled backwards right now. Limiting search by default is wrong and people can/have taken it as a weakness, not knowing (or even knowing) that a plugin will fix a standard function.
I fully understand making the core as light as possible but when stuff like no-index gets included (which is recent) and multiple versions after the inclusion of pages we/they’re still talking about whether to include those pages in core search results is rather skewed in a direction that I can’t comprehend.
And if the issue is a checkbox then the just include the function without the option already, but I recommend not limiting it to pages.
Hey Dan – I think i just found a typo bug in the plugin (v. 4.0). I installed it under WP 2.2.3 and got an error when trying to access the admin page.
On line 403 I changed:
add_options_page('Search', 'Search Everything', 7, 'manage_search', 'SE4_options_page', 'SE4_option_page');to:
add_options_page('Search', 'Search Everything', 7, 'manage_search', 'SE4_option_page', 'SE4_option_page');(removed the ‘s’ from the end of the 5th parameter.)
Now it works like a champ.
Thanks for the plugin!
Derek:
Thank you, I just pushed out the update to WordPress and my repos as 4.0.1.
I just found the same typo. Fixed by myself
I forgot… I have Italian localization available for 4.0.1, where can I send it for inclusion in the next release?
dancameron [at] gmail
Hey Dan – I think i just found a typo bug in the plugin (v. 4.0). I installed it under WP 2.2.3 and got an error when trying to access the admin page.
On line 403 I changed:
add_options_page('Search', 'Search Everything', 7, 'manage_search', 'SE4_options_page', 'SE4_option_page');to:
add_options_page('Search', 'Search Everything', 7, 'manage_search', 'SE4_option_page', 'SE4_option_page');(removed the ‘s’ from the end of the 5th parameter.)
Now it works like a champ.
Thanks for the plugin!
So, it sounds a bit like you don’t believe that they have a better handle on what the audience (in general) wants or expects to see in search results than we do. Is that correct?
Derek:
Thank you, I just pushed out the update to WordPress and my repos as 4.0.1.
I didn’t say that exactly. But if they did clearly know what the “audience wants or expects” there would not be a discussion about adding to the default search, instead there would be a directive stating we should/n’t add X because metric Y says Z.
True. I don’t think they know right now, because they may not have done that analysis yet, but I think the idea is that we/they should know before 2.4, and base the 2.4 implementation on that.
Also, between my last comment and now, I just read your post to the mailing list on this, and that clarified it quite a bit. I thought you did a good job summarizing everything there.
Thanks, I tried my best. Just waiting for a response now.
Excerpt from IRC just now:
True. I don’t think they know right now, because they may not have done that analysis yet, but I think the idea is that we/they should know before 2.4, and base the 2.4 implementation on that.
Also, between my last comment and now, I just read your post to the mailing list on this, and that clarified it quite a bit. I thought you did a good job summarizing everything there.
[...] Cut from my post on this “Page Searching examples” thread on the wp-hacker’s list and a continuation of Jared and my conversation on a previous post. [...]
Excerpt from IRC just now:
Awesome, I wish I could catch it but I think I have to deactivate IRC blocking on our websense server.
Admin should be able to select where the search will go through. It all depends on the content of the blog. For a news blog, posts/pages. For a more interactive one, add comments. Include and exclude are required, because semantically, a blog content isn’t often all dedicated to user info/discussion.
The next step is to have a search form letting user searching through different options
Admin should be able to select where the search will go through. It all depends on the content of the blog. For a news blog, posts/pages. For a more interactive one, add comments. Include and exclude are required, because semantically, a blog content isn’t often all dedicated to user info/discussion.
The next step is to have a search form letting user searching through different options
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting that the admin shouldn’t be able to set those kinds of options; it’s just that they shouldn’t have to worry about it (or see the options) by default.
Anyone who is interested in custom behavior to that degree will be familiar with the concept of plugins and find one that gives them all the options they’d like.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting that the admin shouldn’t be able to set those kinds of options; it’s just that they shouldn’t have to worry about it (or see the options) by default.
Anyone who is interested in custom behavior to that degree will be familiar with the concept of plugins and find one that gives them all the options they’d like.
[...] Search Everything: WordPress bietet bisher nur die Möglichkeit, die einzelnen Beiträge eines Blogs zu durchsuchen. Search Everything erweitert jedoch die Suchfunktionen so, dass [...]
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