After posting this on Twitter:
Whoever is recommending dotster for hosting and domains please stop. Sorry, but if you’re not ignorant you’re an idiot.
Jared asked, “What’s wrong with Dotster?”. LOL, I had forgotten he uses it.
I was requested to setup a client’s outlook to receive email from one of his many domains he purchased through Dotster today and I anticipated it to take a few minutes since he already had a server/hosted plan. Nope, it took forever and I found out a lot of crappy things about Dotster.
First thing I noticed, you can’t add additional domains to your server plan. I’m not sure how they could get away with this so I contacted “live” tech support and after a quick “hello, how can I help you” I never received a reply and I waited 20 minutes since I was looking through documentation and the control panel. Maybe it was the plan that he purchased but any hosting plan limited to one domain is inexcusable.
I just gave up on the hosted plan and looked into the domain configurations. Turns out they love the idea of upselling the customer.
Additional POP and SMTP is $12/yr.
I’m a GoDaddy fan. And after seeing this I’m a bigger fan because the second, third, fourth, fifth and seventh options are all free. I was amazed to see that domain forwarding was an extra charge as well as e-mail forwarding. I’m unclear with transfer locking since it says free / $10 and I thought domain locking was required by ICANN.
I ended with the gmail solutions Setting up the client with e-mail forwarding to gmail where POP access is free and has a bunch of other spectacular features that I rather not list here but I will say it’s the best solution I’ve found for managing e-mail from your own domains. That way he can have webmail access, archiving and use personal email accounts without worry.
So that’s why I have a beef with dotster. Their confusing admin panel, limited hosting plan and extremely expensive domain registration is amusing to say the least.
aside:
Outside of the the average user perspective, like todays client; DNS management is a big plus for me with GoDaddy (it’s free BTW). I had originally started using it because I didn’t have BIND setup on my own VPS when I moved all my sites so I instead opted for the “quick and easy”. I intended to get BIND up and running but soon after I realized having GD manage DNS is ideal. Not only do I have all the controls I need but it gives the extra redundancy if my VPS crashes and I need to point to another IP. There most likely are some limitations but after 9 months I haven’t found any.

Did your post get cut off at the end there?
I’ve never used Dotster or GoDaddy for hosting, but I do have domains registered with both.
I can’t speak to the hosting experience, since I wouldn’t want to use either of them for that, but for domain registration, I prefer Dotster BY FAR over GoDaddy. In fact, GoDaddy is at the bottom of the list in terms of domain registration for me (out of the ones I’ve used).
I’m not sure about all the crap add ons that you mentioned above since I don’t use any of them, but GoDaddy also tries to sell you a bunch of unnecessary stuff like that too. Only suckers/noobs would pay extra for those kinds of features anyway, so I don’t think it’s a huge problem.
I will have to log back in to GoDaddy and examine their DNS config, but from what I remember it’s nowhere near as flexible as running your own BIND server. If all you need is for your domain(s) to resolve to one host then you can do that for free on Dotster too. If GoDaddy has changed to offer more advanced features, then I’ll give them the edge on that, but since setting up and running your own BIND server is trivial I don’t think it’s too big of a deal either way.
Also, you mentioned “micropayments” in your e-mail message, but I don’t see anything about them in this post, unless it’s in the part that got cut off. I don’t see what they have to do with registration or hosting services provided by either of these companies anyway. Maybe you were just referring to the extra charges for additional features?
Oops, just got your e-mail back that you meant upselling, not micropayments. If that’s the case then I give Dotster the edge on that one.
GoDaddy constantly sends me spam e-mails advertising service upgrades etc. that I finally just added a filter to trash any messages I get from them. On the other hand, I’ve never gotten a single spam e-mail from Dotster.
Maybe you should check your preferences in your godaddy account since I *only* receive email from godaddy if my domain is about to expire.
I will say that GoDaddy’s checkout has a similar number of options but they do have a quick checkout option to skip that feature page, dotster doesn’t. Before they give you that option there are three feature plans to choose from, even the most expensive feature plan is only $24 extra.
All those “crap” additions I use. Aren’t you using email forwarding? I couldn’t imagine having my VPS be my mail server for forwarding. And having GD manage forwarding I don’t have to worry about if my server experiences a problem for an extended period of time. And in my past experiences it’s nerve racking when one simple thing goes wrong and it dominos. Having a separate server/provider handle my email is similar to a redundancy plan that I have with DNS.
As for DNS, that’s all I need. To point a record to an IP. Not sure what else I could do with Bind that I can’t do with GD’s DNS management. Except lowering the TTL under an hour which isn’t recommended nor supported by some root servers.
Also that last sentence was supposed to be erased, which it is now.
I’d also like to say that GD’s account center or control interface is much easier to handle then any other I’ve used. Including the very expensive register.com who’s prices are murder compared to dotster.
No, I don’t use e-mail forwarding: my server handles all my e-mail. Some (most right now) gets copied and forwarded to GMail, and it’s extremely easy to do.
DNS: How many records are you allowed to manage in GoDaddy (subdomains, etc.), and what kind of flexibility does it give you? Can you do wildcard entries (like you need to for WPMU)?
Here’s my basic philosophy on domain registration companies: all I need (or want) is a company to let me buy a particular name, and then for me to tell them what name servers to use for that domain (which will point to MY name server, not theirs and not that of my hosting company). That’s it. I don’t want them to do anything else, because I want the flexibility of managing that on my own.
To me, registration companies hold a lot of power over you already since you only own (or lease is a better term) your name through them. I avoid giving them any more power / control / influence at all costs. I would never choose to use them for hosting, or even e-mail forwarding or DNS.
Last but not least, I absolutely HATE GoDaddy’s web design, but that’s a minor point. They are cheap, I’ll give them that, and I guess that’s really all they need, but for only a couple dollars a year difference, that alone (which is their only advantage to draw me) isn’t enough to lure me into moving over the domains I’ve had registered on Dotster for years.
Did your post get cut off at the end there?
I’ve never used Dotster or GoDaddy for hosting, but I do have domains registered with both.
I can’t speak to the hosting experience, since I wouldn’t want to use either of them for that, but for domain registration, I prefer Dotster BY FAR over GoDaddy. In fact, GoDaddy is at the bottom of the list in terms of domain registration for me (out of the ones I’ve used).
I’m not sure about all the crap add ons that you mentioned above since I don’t use any of them, but GoDaddy also tries to sell you a bunch of unnecessary stuff like that too. Only suckers/noobs would pay extra for those kinds of features anyway, so I don’t think it’s a huge problem.
I will have to log back in to GoDaddy and examine their DNS config, but from what I remember it’s nowhere near as flexible as running your own BIND server. If all you need is for your domain(s) to resolve to one host then you can do that for free on Dotster too. If GoDaddy has changed to offer more advanced features, then I’ll give them the edge on that, but since setting up and running your own BIND server is trivial I don’t think it’s too big of a deal either way.
Also, you mentioned “micropayments” in your e-mail message, but I don’t see anything about them in this post, unless it’s in the part that got cut off. I don’t see what they have to do with registration or hosting services provided by either of these companies anyway. Maybe you were just referring to the extra charges for additional features?
Oops, just got your e-mail back that you meant upselling, not micropayments. If that’s the case then I give Dotster the edge on that one.
GoDaddy constantly sends me spam e-mails advertising service upgrades etc. that I finally just added a filter to trash any messages I get from them. On the other hand, I’ve never gotten a single spam e-mail from Dotster.
Maybe you should check your preferences in your godaddy account since I *only* receive email from godaddy if my domain is about to expire.
I will say that GoDaddy’s checkout has a similar number of options but they do have a quick checkout option to skip that feature page, dotster doesn’t. Before they give you that option there are three feature plans to choose from, even the most expensive feature plan is only $24 extra.
All those “crap” additions I use. Aren’t you using email forwarding? I couldn’t imagine having my VPS be my mail server for forwarding. And having GD manage forwarding I don’t have to worry about if my server experiences a problem for an extended period of time. And in my past experiences it’s nerve racking when one simple thing goes wrong and it dominos. Having a separate server/provider handle my email is similar to a redundancy plan that I have with DNS.
As for DNS, that’s all I need. To point a record to an IP. Not sure what else I could do with Bind that I can’t do with GD’s DNS management. Except lowering the TTL under an hour which isn’t recommended nor supported by some root servers.
I’d also like to say that GD’s account center or control interface is much easier to handle then any other I’ve used. Including the very expensive register.com who’s prices are murder compared to dotster.
No, I don’t use e-mail forwarding: my server handles all my e-mail. Some (most right now) gets copied and forwarded to GMail, and it’s extremely easy to do.
DNS: How many records are you allowed to manage in GoDaddy (subdomains, etc.), and what kind of flexibility does it give you? Can you do wildcard entries (like you need to for WPMU)?
Here’s my basic philosophy on domain registration companies: all I need (or want) is a company to let me buy a particular name, and then for me to tell them what name servers to use for that domain (which will point to MY name server, not theirs and not that of my hosting company). That’s it. I don’t want them to do anything else, because I want the flexibility of managing that on my own.
To me, registration companies hold a lot of power over you already since you only own (or lease is a better term) your name through them. I avoid giving them any more power / control / influence at all costs. I would never choose to use them for hosting, or even e-mail forwarding or DNS.
Last but not least, I absolutely HATE GoDaddy’s web design, but that’s a minor point. They are cheap, I’ll give them that, and I guess that’s really all they need, but for only a couple dollars a year difference, that alone (which is their only advantage to draw me) isn’t enough to lure me into moving over the domains I’ve had registered on Dotster for years.
First and not last, Those few dollars to me would be $30 per domain per year equaling at least a grand. That’s ridiculous because then I would be forced to point everything at my own server (like you do) and just be up shits creak if my host went down for a few days because of some catastrophe or something similar.
I’m surprised you want flexibility you don’t use. To me the redundancy is worth it and paying for another server is not an option. Also, what about security? It’s a few less services running that can potentially open your server (probably not an issue for you but it could be for another) for attack.
It sounds to me you’re just backing up your own decisions rather than making a real point of why it’s better one way or the other. Because whether those services are running on your server or not you are still in full control until you get to a point of limitation.
I guess limitations is a reasonable point but as I already said I haven’t noticed any limitation with GD DNS management. Yes, you can use wildcards and I don’t see any limitations in subdomains (there probably is though). And what kind of limitation would you ever get in e-mail forwarding if you don’t use POP, um none.
Maybe it’s just how my experiences are making up my decisions, since in the past I’ve found it very nerve racking to pick up and move hosts if you have either them our yourself manage all the services. Especially e-mail. And I’m not giving full control to my host that’s for sure.
Either way it sounds like you are committed to your current plan and that may be why you’re so vocal without (IMO) any reasonable points why your solution is better. More importantly if you were to agree with me you wouldn’t ever pay dotster so you might as well back your single point of failure plan while I can do whatever you do with redundancy for free or cheaper.
First and not last, Those few dollars to me would be $30 per domain per year equaling at least a grand. That’s ridiculous because then I would be forced to point everything at my own server (like you do) and just be up shits creak if my host went down for a few days because of some catastrophe or something similar.
I’m surprised you want flexibility you don’t use. To me the redundancy is worth it and paying for another server is not an option. Also, what about security? It’s a few less services running that can potentially open your server (probably not an issue for you but it could be for another) for attack.
It sounds to me you’re just backing up your own decisions rather than making a real point of why it’s better one way or the other. Because whether those services are running on your server or not you are still in full control until you get to a point of limitation.
I guess limitations is a reasonable point but as I already said I haven’t noticed any limitation with GD DNS management. Yes, you can use wildcards and I don’t see any limitations in subdomains (there probably is though). And what kind of limitation would you ever get in e-mail forwarding if you don’t use POP, um none.
Maybe it’s just how my experiences are making up my decisions, since in the past I’ve found it very nerve racking to pick up and move hosts if you have either them our yourself manage all the services. Especially e-mail. And I’m not giving full control to my host that’s for sure.
Either way it sounds like you are committed to your current plan and that may be why you’re so vocal without (IMO) any reasonable points why your solution is better. More importantly if you were to agree with me you wouldn’t ever pay dotster so you might as well back your single point of failure plan while I can do whatever you do with redundancy for free or cheaper.
I am kind of just backing up my own decisions, and I’m not trying to convince anyone that my way is necessarily better (even though I think it is) or convince anyone to do it my way. If you’re happy how you’re doing things, then I’m happy for you to.
The main point of my reply was responding to (and disputing) your suggestion that people using Doster are either “ignorant or idiots”. As one of those people (for domain reg, not hosting of course), I felt I should probably reply. I’ll leave it up to you to decide whether the label still fits.
1. I guess if you choose to pay for extra services, then the cost differences would be more substantial, but that’s kind of part of my point; I’d rather not pay for something I can have for free.
2. Please explain how your sites are more redundant by having GoDaddy handle your DNS, etc.; I don’t see it. Your site(s) have already been up that particular creek a couple times over the last year or so, so I’m not sure where that redundancy is coming in. I’m guessing you’re referring to e-mail forwarding instead of running your own mail server, but that doesn’t wash either. When GMail goes down (as you’ve “Tweeted” about recently) you are screwed, whereas I am not.
2a. Redundancy does not relate directly to points of failure. Redundancy means that you have failover support so that if one of those points of failure fails, then you have another one that takes its place so you avoid downtime. Unless I’m mistaken, you do not have this. If your web server goes down your sites (as far as I know) won’t be automatically routed to a different web server, assuming you have one. Same with your DNS server, regardless of whether it’s hosted on your own box or GoDaddy’s, the risk is the same.
2b. My setup actually has fewer points of failure than yours, not more. If either of our web servers crash, then both our sites are down. My web server is running on the same box as my DNS server, so if one is up they’re both going to be up. You, on the other hand, could have your DNS server fail even if your web server is OK. This may not be likely, but it’s possible in your situation but not mine, so therefore yours has more points of failure, at least as far as the web sites go. I’ve already covered e-mail above.
3. Regarding limitations on using GoDaddy for DNS, I don’t know exactly what they are either. One big one for me would be the strong possibility that GoDaddy will eventually decide to start charging you extra for that service, at which point you are screwed if you haven’t learned how to do it yourself; you will have no choice but to pay them what they decide to charge or move your DNS management somewhere else, and that somewhere else may as well be somewhere you control.
4. Moving: no big deal at all for me. Moving is simply a matter of getting a new host set up, and once it’s ready, pointing the DNS records to the new server rather than the old one. (I could even go in phases if I wanted – send mail to the new server when it’s ready, then web, etc.) Once all the traffic is being directed to the new server (and the new DNS server is up and running), I point the name server records to the new box and the old one is ready to be canceled, perhaps after giving it a few days for the DNS to expire.
So, in summary: you don’t have redundancy, you have more points of failure than I do, and you aren’t doing it “for free or cheaper” because you are paying for all those extra services whereas I am not.
I am kind of just backing up my own decisions, and I’m not trying to convince anyone that my way is necessarily better (even though I think it is) or convince anyone to do it my way. If you’re happy how you’re doing things, then I’m happy for you to.
The main point of my reply was responding to (and disputing) your suggestion that people using Doster are either “ignorant or idiots”. As one of those people (for domain reg, not hosting of course), I felt I should probably reply. I’ll leave it up to you to decide whether the label still fits.
1. I guess if you choose to pay for extra services, then the cost differences would be more substantial, but that’s kind of part of my point; I’d rather not pay for something I can have for free.
2. Please explain how your sites are more redundant by having GoDaddy handle your DNS, etc.; I don’t see it. Your site(s) have already been up that particular creek a couple times over the last year or so, so I’m not sure where that redundancy is coming in. I’m guessing you’re referring to e-mail forwarding instead of running your own mail server, but that doesn’t wash either. When GMail goes down (as you’ve “Tweeted” about recently) you are screwed, whereas I am not.
2a. Redundancy does not relate directly to points of failure. Redundancy means that you have failover support so that if one of those points of failure fails, then you have another one that takes its place so you avoid downtime. Unless I’m mistaken, you do not have this. If your web server goes down your sites (as far as I know) won’t be automatically routed to a different web server, assuming you have one. Same with your DNS server, regardless of whether it’s hosted on your own box or GoDaddy’s, the risk is the same.
2b. My setup actually has fewer points of failure than yours, not more. If either of our web servers crash, then both our sites are down. My web server is running on the same box as my DNS server, so if one is up they’re both going to be up. You, on the other hand, could have your DNS server fail even if your web server is OK. This may not be likely, but it’s possible in your situation but not mine, so therefore yours has more points of failure, at least as far as the web sites go. I’ve already covered e-mail above.
3. Regarding limitations on using GoDaddy for DNS, I don’t know exactly what they are either. One big one for me would be the strong possibility that GoDaddy will eventually decide to start charging you extra for that service, at which point you are screwed if you haven’t learned how to do it yourself; you will have no choice but to pay them what they decide to charge or move your DNS management somewhere else, and that somewhere else may as well be somewhere you control.
4. Moving: no big deal at all for me. Moving is simply a matter of getting a new host set up, and once it’s ready, pointing the DNS records to the new server rather than the old one. (I could even go in phases if I wanted – send mail to the new server when it’s ready, then web, etc.) Once all the traffic is being directed to the new server (and the new DNS server is up and running), I point the name server records to the new box and the old one is ready to be canceled, perhaps after giving it a few days for the DNS to expire.
So, in summary: you don’t have redundancy, you have more points of failure than I do, and you aren’t doing it “for free or cheaper” because you are paying for all those extra services whereas I am not.
2. My past experiences included having my server manage DNS and email. Both my managed hosting and my old root server did this.
2b. I trust GD has an infrastructure that their DNS would not be down for at least 30 minutes. We would never have their true redundancy and I’ll never worry about it because of that. So that point doesn’t float for me. But you should flip that around. If both our servers go down I can point my domains instantly to another server (which I can right now) my sites are running in an hour (TTL is 1/hr). You on the other hand would either need to rebuild your DNS server to point your domains to another IP or change the nameservers and create your new records somewhere else, which takes a lot longer to build and propagate (“few days”)
As for e-mail. Yes, GMail has been down a few times but I could think of a few ways to have my e-mail “redundant” online and each easier than running it on my own server. That’s not my servers fault.
back to 2. My past experience makes me not trust any host even with root because no matter what their infrastructure controls all of our “power”. So if I wanted to change hosts in an hour I could, it wouldn’t be more difficult then an rsync and a mysql dump and import.
3. Bind is not hard. When I did setup my server I was in a rush and I couldn’t get it to work but since then I’ve had briefly setup and running on my VPS before I figured out GD’s DNS would be best.
I really hate that rational of expecting or being worried that a free service now will be pay for later. Yes it’s happened plenty of times before (not at GD for all I know) but why are you using gmail or any free service at all? Because it’s unlikely right, well this is unlikely to me and if it happens so be it. I wouldn’t sweet it one bit. But I would need to resort to your inferior plan
“So, in summary: you don’t have redundancy, you have more points of failure than I do, and you aren’t doing it “for free or cheaper†because you are paying for all those extra services whereas I am not.”
WTH? I’m not paying for any services? And a how can I have you understand that single point of failure is the basket you have all of your eggs in. You have all your eggs at Spry. I have mine at GD and Spry. And sorry to break it to you but *our* baskets at Spry are small compared to the basket GD has for these FREE services. I’m sure a lot more people are depending on them then Spry would ever imagine.
IN SUMMARY, if your server goes down for 15 minutes you can’t get any mail. If your host goes down for an extended period of time you don’t get any email. Say you have to move hosts ASAP you migrate the sites over a step at a time (last time it took you a few months) resulting in a “few days” of migration. If our host somehow floods and all the servers are destroyed you’re screwed for a “few” days. For me, my email will always be forwarded (it’s up to GMail or a client I choose to have the uptime). If spry has performance issues I’m gone in a few hours because I have minimal configuration changes. If our servers get horribly destroyed my servers could be back up in a few hours on another server with minor configuration on the new server and only one hour propagation wait. And again both the later will never effect my email because I’m still getting it forwarded for free. That is my fail over plan and the only problems with this would be if:
1. I wanted to changed domain registrars because of price hikes or any other reasons.
Which is far less likely then me changing hosts 3 more times in 2 years.
2. Limitations to these services.
I haven’t found any, yet.
Pro’s:
I’ll always get my e-mail
depending on the e-mail client or clients. In my past experience this sucked and I remember you having the same issue in your last change and I’m not letting it happen again.
GD has true redundancy for e-mail forwarding and DNS.
It’s free.
Easy to use.
I already know how to configure Bind, Postfix and Devcot
It keeps me flexible to move to any server I want quickly.
2. My past experiences included having my server manage DNS and email. Both my managed hosting and my old root server did this.
2b. I trust GD has an infrastructure that their DNS would not be down for at least 30 minutes. We would never have their true redundancy and I’ll never worry about it because of that. So that point doesn’t float for me. But you should flip that around. If both our servers go down I can point my domains instantly to another server (which I can right now) my sites are running in an hour (TTL is 1/hr). You on the other hand would either need to rebuild your DNS server to point your domains to another IP or change the nameservers and create your new records somewhere else, which takes a lot longer to build and propagate (“few days”)
As for e-mail. Yes, GMail has been down a few times but I could think of a few ways to have my e-mail “redundant” online and each easier than running it on my own server. That’s not my servers fault.
back to 2. My past experience makes me not trust any host even with root because no matter what their infrastructure controls all of our “power”. So if I wanted to change hosts in an hour I could, it wouldn’t be more difficult then an rsync and a mysql dump and import.
3. Bind is not hard. When I did setup my server I was in a rush and I couldn’t get it to work but since then I’ve had briefly setup and running on my VPS before I figured out GD’s DNS would be best.
I really hate that rational of expecting or being worried that a free service now will be pay for later. Yes it’s happened plenty of times before (not at GD for all I know) but why are you using gmail or any free service at all? Because it’s unlikely right, well this is unlikely to me and if it happens so be it. I wouldn’t sweet it one bit. But I would need to resort to your inferior plan
“So, in summary: you don’t have redundancy, you have more points of failure than I do, and you aren’t doing it “for free or cheaper†because you are paying for all those extra services whereas I am not.”
WTH? I’m not paying for any services? And a how can I have you understand that single point of failure is the basket you have all of your eggs in. You have all your eggs at Spry. I have mine at GD and Spry. And sorry to break it to you but *our* baskets at Spry are small compared to the basket GD has for these FREE services. I’m sure a lot more people are depending on them then Spry would ever imagine.
IN SUMMARY, if your server goes down for 15 minutes you can’t get any mail. If your host goes down for an extended period of time you don’t get any email. Say you have to move hosts ASAP you migrate the sites over a step at a time (last time it took you a few months) resulting in a “few days” of migration. If our host somehow floods and all the servers are destroyed you’re screwed for a “few” days. For me, my email will always be forwarded (it’s up to GMail or a client I choose to have the uptime). If spry has performance issues I’m gone in a few hours because I have minimal configuration changes. If our servers get horribly destroyed my servers could be back up in a few hours on another server with minor configuration on the new server and only one hour propagation wait. And again both the later will never effect my email because I’m still getting it forwarded for free. That is my fail over plan and the only problems with this would be if:
1. I wanted to changed domain registrars because of price hikes or any other reasons.
Which is far less likely then me changing hosts 3 more times in 2 years.
2. Limitations to these services.
I haven’t found any, yet.
Pro’s:
I’ll always get my e-mail
depending on the e-mail client or clients. In my past experience this sucked and I remember you having the same issue in your last change and I’m not letting it happen again.
GD has true redundancy for e-mail forwarding and DNS.
It’s free.
Easy to use.
I already know how to configure Bind, Postfix and Devcot
It keeps me flexible to move to any server I want quickly.
Wow, that was a long one. I’m rubbing off on you… I’ll take them in the order you listed.
First, you’re wrong about the DNS failure hypothetical situation you outlined. In that situation, you’re assuming we both have immediate access to replacement servers that host the web sites. In your case, you’d point your DNS records (on GoDaddy) to your alternate server. In my case, I’d just point the name server entries for my domains to the new server. The effect is the same; I have no more downtime than you would.
As for your e-mail, I hope I don’t see you complaining about GMail being down again then.
I’m sorry that you don’t trust your host, but it really is no more difficult for me to move (with my setup) than it would be for you; I’m not sure why you think it would be.
As for the possibility of GoDaddy eventually charging for their service, I only mentioned that as one part of my reasoning, and it is a potential negative for having GoDaddy run your DNS. It may be unlikely, but it’s still possible, whereas my plan does not have that flaw.
Re: “You aren’t doing it for free or cheaper because you are paying for all those extra services whereas I am not.” – You mentioned in your first comment on this post “All those ‘crap’ additions I use.” I guess if you are saying that you get all those crap services for free then that halfway makes sense, but my method is free as well, so I’m having trouble seeing where the “cheaper” comes in.
I understand perfectly what a single point of failure is, and that redundancy is having a reliable replacement in place when points of failure do actually fail, so I still don’t see the redundancy in your plan (other than the fact that GoDaddy has backup servers – so does Spry BTW).
To address your summary, I’ll just repeat that you are wrong in your description of my part of that equation. Let’s actually look at real life experience here to see what actually DOES happen:
E-mail – It’s true that IF my server goes down, I will be without mail for that period of time. HOWEVER, that has never happened (I’m not sure what you’re referring to if you’re suggesting that it has). You, on the other hand, posted recently about your mail provider being “down”. Point goes to me on that one.
Web server – This one pretty much goes without saying, but since we’re having this conversation, I’ll say it anyway. I’ve only ever had a couple minor service interruptions over the last few years, and it was (as you described) caused by something out of my control that happened at Spry. In those rare cases, my sites were back up and running within a couple hours at the longest. Your sites have been down for days at a time, multiple times, in the last year alone. So how’s that “quick switch” plan working out for you?
DNS – As I described above, you are wrong in your assumption that a server outage on my part would result in “days” of downtime. In addition, if my DNS server is actually down, then my web server is as well, and I’ll get them both back up and running at the same time. You have the additional potential for the problem scenario (however unlikely) where your web server is up and running but your DNS (which is out of your control) is screwed and there’s nothing you can do about it.
As for it “taking me a few months” to move hosts, I only took that long the last time because I chose to, not because of technical limitations. I could afford that flexibility because my setup allows me to have that kind of control, and I can move quickly OR slowly, according to whatever suits my schedule.
I’ve already covered the additional cons/limitations you didn’t list, but you list several things in your “pros” list that are not advantages over my methods.
1. Your first pro isn’t true, according to your recent posts about your mail being unavailable.
2. I’ll give you the redundancy (even though you’re assuming it), but that issue hasn’t come up yet for either of us, so it’s not a big concern for me.
3. My method is free as well, so that is not an advantage.
4. Easy to use, see #3 above
5. How is knowing those things (albeit being out of practive with them) a pro for your setup?
6. See #3 in this list again; it’s just as easy and flexible for me to move, so no advantage there either.
Wow, that was a long one. I’m rubbing off on you… I’ll take them in the order you listed.
First, you’re wrong about the DNS failure hypothetical situation you outlined. In that situation, you’re assuming we both have immediate access to replacement servers that host the web sites. In your case, you’d point your DNS records (on GoDaddy) to your alternate server. In my case, I’d just point the name server entries for my domains to the new server. The effect is the same; I have no more downtime than you would.
As for your e-mail, I hope I don’t see you complaining about GMail being down again then.
I’m sorry that you don’t trust your host, but it really is no more difficult for me to move (with my setup) than it would be for you; I’m not sure why you think it would be.
As for the possibility of GoDaddy eventually charging for their service, I only mentioned that as one part of my reasoning, and it is a potential negative for having GoDaddy run your DNS. It may be unlikely, but it’s still possible, whereas my plan does not have that flaw.
Re: “You aren’t doing it for free or cheaper because you are paying for all those extra services whereas I am not.” – You mentioned in your first comment on this post “All those ‘crap’ additions I use.” I guess if you are saying that you get all those crap services for free then that halfway makes sense, but my method is free as well, so I’m having trouble seeing where the “cheaper” comes in.
I understand perfectly what a single point of failure is, and that redundancy is having a reliable replacement in place when points of failure do actually fail, so I still don’t see the redundancy in your plan (other than the fact that GoDaddy has backup servers – so does Spry BTW).
To address your summary, I’ll just repeat that you are wrong in your description of my part of that equation. Let’s actually look at real life experience here to see what actually DOES happen:
DNS – As I described above, you are wrong in your assumption that a server outage on my part would result in “days” of downtime. In addition, if my DNS server is actually down, then my web server is as well, and I’ll get them both back up and running at the same time. You have the additional potential for the problem scenario (however unlikely) where your web server is up and running but your DNS (which is out of your control) is screwed and there’s nothing you can do about it.
E-mail – It’s true that IF my server goes down, I will be without mail for that period of time. HOWEVER, that has never happened (I’m not sure what you’re referring to if you’re suggesting that it has). You, on the other hand, posted recently about your mail provider being “down”. Point goes to me on that one.
Web server – This one pretty much goes without saying, but since we’re having this conversation, I’ll say it anyway. I’ve only ever had a couple minor service interruptions over the last few years, and it was (as you described) caused by something out of my control that happened at Spry. In those rare cases, my sites were back up and running within a couple hours at the longest. Your sites have been down for days at a time, multiple times, in the last year alone. So how’s that “quick switch” plan working out for you?
As for it “taking me a few months” to move hosts, I only took that long the last time because I chose to, not because of technical limitations. I could afford that flexibility because my setup allows me to have that kind of control, and I can move quickly OR slowly, according to whatever suits my schedule.
I’ve already covered the additional cons/limitations you didn’t list, but you list several things in your “pros” list that are not advantages over my methods.
1. Your first pro isn’t true, according to your recent posts about your mail being unavailable.
2. I’ll give you the redundancy (even though you’re assuming it), but that issue hasn’t come up yet for either of us, so it’s not a big concern for me.
3. My method is free as well, so that is not an advantage.
4. Easy to use, see #3 above
5. How is knowing those things (albeit being out of practive with them) a pro for your setup?
6. See #3 in this list again; it’s just as easy and flexible for me to move, so no advantage there either.
You’re not listening. It’s okay, I understand this is just one of those conversation you wont ever get because of you’re “whatever I do is always right and you’re wrong” mentality.
And that last comment proves that you’re just either not listening or not understanding. Especially when you reference quotes, you know what quotes mean right :).
When I quote “crap” that doesn’t mean I said it that means you did.
When I say free I mean if you ever wanted to use dotster for DNS then you would have to pay.
When gmail goes down it has nothing to do with registrar services and I already said
I already have three solutions that I setup in 2 minutes last night so I will never loose touch of my e-mail. All independent of my server.
Um, what’s this again http://freepressblog.org/2006/04/16/dont-try-to-e-mail-me/
Another point you bring up that makes no sense if you actually listened,
.
I’ve clearly stated these experiences have resulted in me using my current “plan”.
I’m only quoting you
Maybe you should remember what you already said or at least understand what quotes are for.
Like I said I could use Bind on my own server but I prefer an option readily available to me that I deem a better solution.
Because I only need to configure apache and point to the new IPs which would be propagated in an hour at the most. You need to configure Bind, Email server and apache to wait a “few days” for your email to come back up with your sites. It might not take you long to set it up but it’s step I do not have to take nor *want to*. I don’t get why you don’t understand this simple point that is the base of my discussion.
You don’t get my overall point too which would have ended this conversation a long time ago:
And no matter what, “my past experiences” has resulted in what I’m doing now not any assumptions. I know how long it takes and in my opinion I rather not be tied to any host.
Also, stop saying “you’re wrong” or “your…isn’t true” it’s pissing me off and it’s not keeping the conversation very civilized. You’re actually making me respond with stuff I’ve already stated.
If you go over what I wrote and understood the logic I applied was based on your statements and my experiences how could I be “wrong”? It would either be your statements are wrong, which you contradicted yourself (see above) or my experiences are wrong. And since I don’t have a poor memory in this subject it’s not the later. Otherwise it’s all opinion again and we know you’re not budging any opinion that you have.
Another long one that may be my last unless you make a solid rebuttal that brings up something I don’t have to repeat myself to answer.
Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I’m not listening or understanding you. I read and perfectly understood everything you said already.
The crap thing was obvious; I only said it that way because I still think they are crap, not because I thought you agreed.
“If you ever wanted to use Dotster for DNS, you’d have to pay” – that’s the whole point; I don’t want do that, so that makes no sense at all.
Regarding e-mail outages, I had forgotten about that one you linked to, but if you check the comments it was back up and running in about three hours, and was due to me experimenting with the configuration, not an unplanned outage that you are still subject to. I acknowledge that’s a risk, but it’s one I’m willing to take. To be fair, we’re both subject to unplanned outages / failures, but your system is no less subject to them than mine, like I said before.
How are you quoting me in saying that my servers going down would result in days of downtime? I did not say that. You keep saying the “few days” line, but you are totally wrong on that point (sorry to say that again, but it’s frustrating that you keep saying it even though it’s not true). Your quote in that comment is in reference to moving servers (not in a rush), not downtime (which I outlined a different, faster solution for). These are two different situations, and if you read my comments I think that’s clear. Applying the “few days” line that you quoted to an outage scenario is taking my words out of context. That’s what I’m trying to correct, but apparently you’re not listening.
Like I said above, I’m not trying to convince you that you should do things differently. If you read my comments above (beginning of #8 specifically), I make that very clear. In case it’s too much trouble to go back and look:
So, like I said before, my comments on this post are to illustrate that I am not “ignorant” or “an idiot” for using Dotster for registration. Don’t get so defensive about it; my explaining my reasons for using my setup does not mean that I’m trying to convince you to do anything differently – just explaining why the way you’ve decided is superior isn’t necessarily so.
Also, don’t give me the whole thing about me being unwilling to change my mind so there’s no point in talking about it. That isn’t true (oops, sorry)
You’re not listening. It’s okay, I understand this is just one of those conversation you wont ever get because of you’re “whatever I do is always right and you’re wrong” mentality.
And that last comment proves that you’re just either not listening or not understanding. Especially when you reference quotes, you know what quotes mean right :).
When I quote “crap” that doesn’t mean I said it that means you did.
When I say free I mean if you ever wanted to use dotster for DNS then you would have to pay.
When gmail goes down it has nothing to do with registrar services and I already said
I already have three solutions that I setup in 2 minutes last night so I will never loose touch of my e-mail. All independent of my server.
Um, what’s this again http://freepressblog.org/2006/04/16/dont-try-to-e-mail-me/
Another point you bring up that makes no sense if you actually listened,
.
I’ve clearly stated these experiences have resulted in me using my current “plan”.
I’m only quoting you
Maybe you should remember what you already said or at least understand what quotes are for.
Like I said I could use Bind on my own server but I prefer an option readily available to me that I deem a better solution.
Because I only need to configure apache and point to the new IPs which would be propagated in an hour at the most. You need to configure Bind, Email server and apache to wait a “few days” for your email to come back up with your sites. It might not take you long to set it up but it’s step I do not have to take nor *want to*. I don’t get why you don’t understand this simple point that is the base of my discussion.
You don’t get my overall point too which would have ended this conversation a long time ago:
And no matter what, “my past experiences” has resulted in what I’m doing now not any assumptions. I know how long it takes and in my opinion I rather not be tied to any host.
Also, stop saying “you’re wrong” or “your…isn’t true” it’s pissing me off and it’s not keeping the conversation very civilized. You’re actually making me respond with stuff I’ve already stated.
If you go over what I wrote and understood the logic I applied was based on your statements and my experiences how could I be “wrong”? It would either be your statements are wrong, which you contradicted yourself (see above) or my experiences are wrong. And since I don’t have a poor memory in this subject it’s not the later. Otherwise it’s all opinion again and we know you’re not budging any opinion that you have.
Another long one that may be my last unless you make a solid rebuttal that brings up something I don’t have to repeat myself to answer.
Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I’m not listening or understanding you. I read and perfectly understood everything you said already.
The crap thing was obvious; I only said it that way because I still think they are crap, not because I thought you agreed.
“If you ever wanted to use Dotster for DNS, you’d have to pay” – that’s the whole point; I don’t want do that, so that makes no sense at all.
Regarding e-mail outages, I had forgotten about that one you linked to, but if you check the comments it was back up and running in about three hours, and was due to me experimenting with the configuration, not an unplanned outage that you are still subject to. I acknowledge that’s a risk, but it’s one I’m willing to take. To be fair, we’re both subject to unplanned outages / failures, but your system is no less subject to them than mine, like I said before.
How are you quoting me in saying that my servers going down would result in days of downtime? I did not say that. You keep saying the “few days” line, but you are totally wrong on that point (sorry to say that again, but it’s frustrating that you keep saying it even though it’s not true). Your quote in that comment is in reference to moving servers (not in a rush), not downtime (which I outlined a different, faster solution for). These are two different situations, and if you read my comments I think that’s clear. Applying the “few days” line that you quoted to an outage scenario is taking my words out of context. That’s what I’m trying to correct, but apparently you’re not listening.
Like I said above, I’m not trying to convince you that you should do things differently. If you read my comments above (beginning of #8 specifically), I make that very clear. In case it’s too much trouble to go back and look:
So, like I said before, my comments on this post are to illustrate that I am not “ignorant” or “an idiot” for using Dotster for registration. Don’t get so defensive about it; my explaining my reasons for using my setup does not mean that I’m trying to convince you to do anything differently – just explaining why the way you’ve decided is superior isn’t necessarily so.
Also, don’t give me the whole thing about me being unwilling to change my mind so there’s no point in talking about it. That isn’t true (oops, sorry)
Okay maybe that last comment sounded harsh but there is no way for me not to be defensive when you’re constantly telling me I’m wrong when I either reference what you’re saying or I’m stating my opinion or my experience. It’s also very frustrating when I have to repeat myself over and over again.
I’m going to keep this simple so you can explain to me what this means,
To me that statement says no matter what you do you need to wait for propagation to occur. And from what I understand there is no way to speed up this process unless you plan for it. SO if you were to setup a new server faster then my you’ll still be waiting longer for everyone to see or be able to e-mail you.
This is were I get frustrated. Because you’re right and you know by keeping to this point alone you’ll be right BUT you’re missing my point if our servers goes down due to any mis-configuration or hardware failure I don’t have to post about not sending me email. You’re rebut to that was “Gmail has been down”, well that’s irrelevant because that’s just an e-mail client. At the time of GMail going down I did have a local and phone backup.
Umm that’s what I said already,
The whole “ignorant or idiots” is crazy. By no means do I think that of *every* user (including you), similar to you not thinking *every* digg user is a moron.
I’m really over this, hopefully you’re too. We’re both unwilling to change our minds because we’ve already nitpicked every piece of this topic to death. And whether you agree I don’t care but I do believe my solution will work best for *me* and a few others (not including you of course
).
Yeah, I think this topic is pretty much done.
I will clarify the “few days” DNS thing though, since it seems I didn’t make that clear before.
During a *planned move* I would change the DNS and then wait a few days before deactivating the old site. This is because some DNS servers will ignore short TTLs and use their defaults (regardless of who is running your DNS server), so those ones will still lag behind no matter what you do / plan for.
In an emergency situation, I can immediately switch nameservers just as you can switch the DNS records, and in both cases, well behaved name servers will pick up the change after the previous TTL has expired, so there’s no difference in downtime between our approaches.
In that emergency event, we would both suffer from the servers that ignore TTL settings and cache for a few days anyway, which is why I stated that for a planned move I would wait a few days to take that into account.
Okay maybe that last comment sounded harsh but there is no way for me not to be defensive when you’re constantly telling me I’m wrong when I either reference what you’re saying or I’m stating my opinion or my experience. It’s also very frustrating when I have to repeat myself over and over again.
I’m going to keep this simple so you can explain to me what this means,
To me that statement says no matter what you do you need to wait for propagation to occur. And from what I understand there is no way to speed up this process unless you plan for it. SO if you were to setup a new server faster then my you’ll still be waiting longer for everyone to see or be able to e-mail you.
This is were I get frustrated. Because you’re right and you know by keeping to this point alone you’ll be right BUT you’re missing my point if our servers goes down due to any mis-configuration or hardware failure I don’t have to post about not sending me email. You’re rebut to that was “Gmail has been down”, well that’s irrelevant because that’s just an e-mail client. At the time of GMail going down I did have a local and phone backup.
Umm that’s what I said already,
The whole “ignorant or idiots” is crazy. By no means do I think that of *every* user (including you), similar to you not thinking *every* digg user is a moron.
I’m really over this, hopefully you’re too. We’re both unwilling to change our minds because we’ve already nitpicked every piece of this topic to death. And whether you agree I don’t care but I do believe my solution will work best for *me* and a few others (not including you of course
).
Yeah, I think this topic is pretty much done.
I will clarify the “few days” DNS thing though, since it seems I didn’t make that clear before.
During a *planned move* I would change the DNS and then wait a few days before deactivating the old site. This is because some DNS servers will ignore short TTLs and use their defaults (regardless of who is running your DNS server), so those ones will still lag behind no matter what you do / plan for.
In an emergency situation, I can immediately switch nameservers just as you can switch the DNS records, and in both cases, well behaved name servers will pick up the change after the previous TTL has expired, so there’s no difference in downtime between our approaches.
In that emergency event, we would both suffer from the servers that ignore TTL settings and cache for a few days anyway, which is why I stated that for a planned move I would wait a few days to take that into account.
Geez, I don’t wanna step in the middle of this really long conversation… but I just wanted to say, I had Dotster for a while (four or five domains registered with them) but I ditched them when I found Dreamhost for both registration and hosting. Haven’t had any complaints. It wasn’t just the availability of a move though, I actively sought out alternatives to Dotster because they bugged the crap out of me. I would get renewal reminders for domains that had 6 months left on them, but twice I lost control of a domain because I got no reminders at all. Their support was terrible.
And I’m convinced that they save searches for available domains and sell them off. There were a few times when I searched through Dotster for availables, found a couple that were good to go, but didn’t order right away. Two/three days later when I went to order, they had been registered. Far, far too coincidental given the relative uniqueness of the names.
I’m much happier with Dreamhost.
Geez, I don’t wanna step in the middle of this really long conversation… but I just wanted to say, I had Dotster for a while (four or five domains registered with them) but I ditched them when I found Dreamhost for both registration and hosting. Haven’t had any complaints. It wasn’t just the availability of a move though, I actively sought out alternatives to Dotster because they bugged the crap out of me. I would get renewal reminders for domains that had 6 months left on them, but twice I lost control of a domain because I got no reminders at all. Their support was terrible.
And I’m convinced that they save searches for available domains and sell them off. There were a few times when I searched through Dotster for availables, found a couple that were good to go, but didn’t order right away. Two/three days later when I went to order, they had been registered. Far, far too coincidental given the relative uniqueness of the names.
I’m much happier with Dreamhost.
Dotster’s hosting is AWFUL. They charge 75$ to talk to you on the phone when you have a problem with their VPS. They are rude and unhelpful! We switched all our domains off of Dotster.
Dotster's hosting is AWFUL. They charge 75$ to talk to you on the phone when you have a problem with their VPS. They are rude and unhelpful! We switched all our domains off of Dotster.
One of my clients, an entrepreneur who has numerous business ventures, has over 50 domains registered with Dotster. He has long hated them for their practices and, as the domains come up for renewal, I have been slowly transferring them to GoDaddy where he has his hosting accounts. Three weeks ago he asked me to change the name servers to point to GoDaddy for one of his domains, and put the web site for that domain on his GoDaddy server. I did this, and the URL gave a server not found error page. I contacted GoDaddy to be sure I have the right name servers and had the file hierarchy set up properly, despite having done this for my client numerous times before, and they confirmed I did. They said wait 72 hours because it can take that long. After 72 hours I was getting the same error. I contacted Godaddy and was told then it is an issue with the registrar – Dotster. I called Dotster tech support line, a 24/7 line, and listened to music for almost an hour. I decided to e-mail my request instead marking it urgent because my client needed his web site up and running to show one of his clients. Two days later I received an e-mail response saying someone would get back to me in 24 hours. Three weeks later I am still waiting. Since the site was still not showing I called Dotster again and this time put them on speaker phone. I was listening to music punctuated by recordings of how much my business means to them for 178 minutes. That is 2 minutes short of three hours, at which time I received a different recording saying to call during normal business hours. This is a 24/7 help line in Washington which is an hour behind me and it was 2 pm their time on a Wednesday. What are their normal business hours? This weekend I called again and got their answering service. I explained the urgency and was told the tech on call would contact me with-in the hour. Never happened. I called back 4 more times and was told by one operator the tech had backed up but someone would return my call in the order it was received. Excuse me, I have been trying for three weeks, how many people are in front of me? I have yet to hear from anyone. I have called, I have e-mailed four times and I have received no response. I have to meet my client today because he wants answers about this so I am going to tell him to transfer the domain to GoDaddy. That will take yet another 7 days but at least I will get tech support. As for Dotster? Clint Page and Brian Unruh can go back to sleeping with al-Quiada and the other terrorist organizations they are supporting, they will not get another dime of my, or my clients' money, if I can help it.
I found your blog for the obvious reasons – Dotster is a thief on the information super highway. I decided to give GoDaddy a try and it's the difference between riding a unicycle with a flat tire and a broken pedal vs. sitting in the cockpit of a stealth fighter on the abovementioned super highway.
Dotster again has failed to keep up. Going through upgrades, Doster indicated that email would not be affected….guest what, they are 100% wrong. Email is non existant…and customer support….”we are aware of the problem and doing everything we can…..WELL it’s been going on for 7 hours now……
Never ever, I will use Dotster for any of there services. I’ve been a customer for over 7 yrs. My site has been down twice in the past yr. the fist time took me 1 week to get it back up and no one could tell me why it was down and now it has been 2 weeks, I called three times to get answers and I’m yet to get help. 1 hr + waite every time I call.
very frustrating and disrespectful of customer’s time