Cutting etiquette

Originally here, I thought it warranted a whole seperate conversation

I don’t endorse blatant insertion into the line at some random point and trying to get away with it, but people saving places in line for their friends is completely different, and as long as there aren’t any rules posted to not allow it

Jared:
Your saying that if the guy at the front of the line just let people in the line ahead, or behind, would be okay. Even if those people were not there at any point in time? That is bullshit, what is the point of a line then? I might as well have just got there a day early and sold spots behind me and claimed they were friends or better yet sell the spots to friends then they could sell spots to their friends. According to Jared’s rules it wouldn’t be a problem, as long as it wasn’t posted anywhere.

You cover your horrible “logic” by saying it would get out of hand if 50 people were let in by one person, what is the difference between 50 people and 1? The situation that occurred was 3 or 4 groups let 2-3 people in. Leaving a lot of people out, people like me that actually waited in line for something did not get the product that was originally designated in the common understand of a line.

I previously brought up the Star War lines, that you guys waited in, because of the aspect of waiting in a line for a release of something NOT because of line etiquette. I agree that people may “cut” with friends in situations like that because no matter where you are in line you still get what you deserved, which was a seat. And in that situation no seat is valued the same and having your group of friends is the point of waiting in line; so you can sit all together. And most importantly no one will miss a seat.

This was a product, not a seat. A better example, for you to understand: someone in the front of the line buys all the tickets for a certain show for the full days release, even though there is a hundred people behind him wanting just one. And in the case that it is “posted” one ticket per customer, the person gets a hundred friends to arrive 5 minuted before the box office opens and they buy up all the tickets. I guess you would be okay with this? I see NO difference.

A line is a line. You are supposed to wait in LINE at the point of arrival. Adding friends only makes another line detached, almost like a branch. A branch is not a branch, if you didn’t know.

It’s common etiquette not to cut and I don’t understand why you think it’s alright.

Also, for you to say that you wouldn’t let people cut is absurd. We all know you are a very soft spoken person in public and I couldn’t imagine you walking up to someone and tell them to get out of line, no matter who it is. And for you to say I should have said something would have only created a confrontation or worse fight. 2 on 8 other guys who wouldn’t give a f- if they started a fight isn’t worth it to me, especially since it wouldn’t have resolved anything since the Bestbuy guess didn’t care one bit.

Asides

November 24

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About the Author, Dan Cameron:

I'm the owner and solution engineer at Sprout Venture, a web solutions company that specializes in web development including WordPress.

I started my first blog in 2003 and transitioned to WordPress in 2004. Since moving to WordPress I've written a few plugins and themes for public consumption. Lately I'm busy engineering/building/coding and have only been able to share a few code snippets.

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  • April
    People in todays society just do not care about rules or etiquette anymore. I am 8 mos pregnant and two days ago my husband and I took our neice and nephew to the waterpark. Upon arrival there were 2 lines...both were for the ticket/admissions purchase and we walked up and got in line. I noticed a small child in front of me that at first I thought was with the older group of children ahead of us. Well, to get to the point...some parent had placed their 6 year old child in our line and the adult along with the rest of their family turned out to be over in the other line. As soon as we finally got up to the ticket booth we then realized a whole family of chinese people cutting in front of us. I asked the woman just what she thought she was doing and she immediately got beligerent with me and said she was smart that she had her 6 year old stand in line for all of them so that they could get through on whichever line went faster. I expressed my feeling to the parent that what she had done really isn't right. She obviously was embarrassed because she started telling me to calm down and said not to make a scene in front of her children...she really didn't make any sense because I was not threatening her or anything but it seemed she just wanted the public attention off of her. I told her to not tell me to calm down that if it made her feel better that she cut in fornt of a pregnant lady then to just go ahead and can you believe that this lady had the nerve to walk away and call me a bitch!? I couldn't believe the disrespect not only for my condition but that she actually thought it was ok to do what she did. I would expect it out of teenagers but not a grown parent that should be setting an example for their children. I am actually upset with myself that I didn't do a better job at putting this horrible lady in her place. I am glad I spoke up but just disappointed that I thought of a million better things I could have said to her that would have made me feel better. A line is a line for a reason...saving places in line is not ok unless say one person just had to run to the bathroom or something.
  • nstryker
    by "bent and exploited" i didn't mean you were saying you should rebel against. rather, you believe one should follow them to the letter, allowing you to take advantage of any intentional/unintentional oversights made by the legistators that be.
  • Dan
    - jared doesn't mind the gray area.
  • Actually, I wasn't saying that people should rebel against the rules established by the man (in this case BB); but rather that it was the fact that there were no rules established by "the man" that was the problem in this case.

    I think I made it clear above that I don't think what the place-savers did was "good" or "cool", I would just stop short of saying that it was "wrong".
  • Dan
    Always the voice of reason.
  • nstryker
    - jaredb believes that rules are set by the man and can therefore be bent and exploited at will by the people.
    - dan believes that there are greater assumptions and common decency which take presidence over written rules and should be inforced by authority.

    there, now you guys don't have to argue over abstract "right" and "wrong" when you're playing under different assumptions.
  • Maybe, but then again, I would have been wrong to assume that no one in line in front of me was saving places for other people, since it was clearly allowed.
  • Dan
    Allowing and not caring is different. Like I said BB had nothing to do with the line, which is why I hate them, so etiquette or common sense made the rules of "the line" and that is what I am bringing up here.

    And no we never were guaranteed anything but we earned our spot in line by waiting.

    Anyways...to clarify your stance on the subject:
    If you and your family went to Disneyland, you went to your favorite ride and the staff said they had x amount of spots and you counted the people ahead of you just to make sure you were not waiting for nothing. You then waited in line for 2 hours, you noticed some "spot savers" cutting, no one did anything because they were gangsta f-heads, you told the Disneyland staff but they said they couldn't do anything about it, then when they lit the last person on the ride and you and your family just missed it by 5 people wouldn't you be pissed at the 5 people that cut?

    I would.
  • Ya, I get your point, but I'm just saying they didn't "steal" anything because you never had anything for them to steal. You believe that your position in the BB line was stolen, but in fact since BB lets people save places, etc, your place in line never meant anything anyway, so "stealing" that from you is not so significant. It originally sounded like you were saying that the cutters were actually "stealing" XBoxes from the people farther back in line, and I was just trying to make it clear that the people farther back in line (because of BB's policies) were NEVER guaranteed jack.
  • Dan
    But we are not talking about if BB allowed it or not; we are talking about the action of people. That is why I allotted this post for this subject and tried not to bring up BB.

    Cutting is WRONG.

    To close the subject on BB: they didn't care what went on. It was a free for all outside and they had nothing to do with regulating the line. They even said, "(We) hope that the people outside would regulate it outside", "we do not have security". So it's not like they allowed anything, they didn't care.

    And that is why I dislike BB, they didn't give a flying...and I dislike the cutters because they blatantly stole from the people who stood in line 3-20 times longer then they did, knowing the closer to the front the more guaranteed the sale.

    I really don't even care about the 360, because I will either get one in the coming weeks and if not I will wait for the Revolution which I intend to buy as well, most likely selling my 360 to get it.
  • I know; I'm saying what they did goes against etiquette, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "wrong".

    The fact that they were aware that people were getting in line / saving places (and they definitely were, since you told them about it) proves that Best Buy condoned the practice of space saving / letting friends in.

    So, yes, if Best Buy does not make it clear (by posting or verbally telling people) that this is not allowed (and they not only didn't do that, but also didn't take action after it was brought to their attention), then the people participating in the poor etiquette were not breaking any "rules/law", because Best Buy established that they allowed that. It's their store and they make the rules in such matters.

    This is why I'm saying that if you don't like it (and I wouldn't either), that it's Best Buy's fault, not the people who are taking advantage of something that Best Buy is willing to allow. Of course, those people are jerks too, but only because BB is allowing them to be so.
  • Dan
    Martha: I already answered that question, No. He arrived 10 minutes after me and another guy showed up before he did and I made a point to JM that he was behind that kid.

    Jared: I am very upset with Bestbuy,especially since I pleaded to them 3-4 times to pass out the tickets because I saw it happening hours before.

    It also doesn't lie on the person that allowed their friend to join the line it is on the friend who jumped in because he is the one breaking etiquette.

    Are you really serious with the whole if the rule/law isn't posted or known then it's not breaking any rules/law?

    Etiquette isn't solely regulated it's considered mostly social.
    et·i·quette - The practices and forms prescribed by social convention or by authority.
  • Martha
    I think you have double standards. Did you let Jason in line with you?
  • I know, I was just joking about you being a wuss and letting people cut; there's not much you could have done.

    As for the rest of my position you outlined above, I stand by it.

    Your point about no one losing a seat is exactly why it was OK for people (who all already had guaranteed tickets) waiting in line for a movie to allow others in, for the reason you specified.

    What's more, this goes towards proving my point, because the people waiting in line for the movie would not lose anything, whereas you standing in line at Best Buy didn't "lose" anything, since you didn't ever have anything to lose (other than your place in line, or at least the place you perceived was yours).

    Now, etiquette would say that you *shouldn't* do this (allow saving places), of course, and in your situation I don't think I would have, just because there were so many disparate people who would have been shut out, but I still don't think it's "wrong".

    It all goes back to the policy of Best Buy, and since they allowed it (implicitly - both by not clarifying any of the "rules" you were assuming were in place, and confirming it by not correcting those who were obviously doing it). Actually the movie thing is a perfect example of a better way of handling this; having people stand in line to buy something is dumb, why couldn't they just have sold tickets online and avoided the whole issue?

    In your hypothetical example of the one person at the front maneuvering it to shut out everyone else by bringing in others (or selling, etc.), if the store allows them to do that, then I say your gripe is with the store. Sure the person is a jerk, but the store enabled them to do that.

    Also, I suspect that if you had made it on time, and were within the first ten, you may have considered letting JM in if he showed up when he did. Or, if he was up there and offered the place to you, I think you may have considered taking it, after seeing so many others doing so.

    My main point is don't get too down on the people, because I think the blame for this situation lies with Best Buy.
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